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Thursday, October 22, 2015

The world's longest crossword clue - discussion - puzzle #1

Cut-and-paste of the discussion on the Cryptic Crossword Society Facebook Page.

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OLDER

Anand Manikutty

2 hrs

Okay, I am going to make a play for the world's longest crossword clue.

1 Ac. No idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, <repeated a million times> (3,1,4).

Like Comment

Comments

Ganesh Nayak NOT A CLUE

LikeReply2 hrs

Anand Manikutty Once I reveal the answer, or someone solves it, it will be easy to see - at least for those familiar with mathematics - that this clue can be made as long as you want. In fact, it has cardinality equal to aleph-naught.

LikeReply2 hrsEdited

Anand Manikutty Yes.

LikeReply2 hrs

Anand Manikutty I am claiming two World Records:

- the record for the world's longest crossword clue
- the record for the world's largest crossword puzzle.

Submitted my application to the Guiness Book of World Records.

Your application reference
151023023540wbcp

LikeReply1 hr

Ganesh Nayak Can you pl link to the largest crossword puzzle?

LikeReply40 mins

Anand Manikutty That would be Question 7. I just updated the blog.

LikeReply18 mins

Write a reply...

SSv Avtaar How is it the longest clue? You can count 'a million times' literally and what is the purpose of repetition?

LikeReply1 hr

Anand Manikutty Fair question.

As for answers, see my blog "Ask the Delphic Oracle":

http://askthedelphicoracle.blogspot.com/.../the-worlds...

I have confirmed with James Bonilla. This is a fair cryptic crossword clue.

LikeReply54 minsEdited

Anand Manikutty Can you clarify your question: "You can count 'a million times' literally and what is the purpose of repetition?"? It is ambiguous.

LikeReply52 minsEdited

SSv Avtaar Just 'no idea' means Not a Clue. What is the purpose of repetition?

LikeReply41 mins

Anand Manikutty I have answered your question on the blog.

At the end of the day, please note that whether you agree with specific interpretations of crossword clues or not, the setter of clues always has much license in the way they set clues. Such license cannot be taken away from the clue setter - in other words, the benefit of doubt must always be given to the clue setter. The belief that "the benefit of doubt must always be given to the clue setter" (call it B1) is my ideological belief in the context of this discussion, and, for obvious reasons, I am not going to change my opinion on the matter of that particular belief.

LikeReply27 mins

Anand Manikutty ^^^^

Note that I am arguing in a particular way. The discussion itself is organized in a particular way. This asserts the main points I am making in this discussion while avoiding unnescessary detail.

LikeReply125 minsEdited

Ganesh Nayak NOT A CLUE (this time, about what you're talking smile emoticon )

LikeReply219 mins

Anand Manikutty @Ganesh Nayak - It's a lot of fancy mathematics. If you are familiar with context-free grammars, it would be possible to continue. Otherwise, I will let people (that is, mathematicians) familiar with context-free grammars discuss this further with me.

LikeReply17 mins

Anand Manikutty The basic clue and solve is as below.

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The clue is in two parts.

The first part is the phrase "No idea". This clues the final answer "Not a clue". The second part is the rest of the clue "no idea, no idea, ..., no idea". This part is -not- a clue. It is just a long sentence. At least, this is the case in our first reading (call this Reading R1) of this clue. This yields the answer "Not a clue". Thus, the phrase "Not a clue" is clued in two different ways. This satisfies the requirements for a cryptic crossword clue.
--+--

LikeReply14 mins

The world's longest cryptic crossword clue - puzzle #1

Posted today on the "Cryptic Crossword Society" Facebook Group.

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Anand Manikutty

3 mins

Okay, I am going to make a play for the world's longest crossword clue.

1 Ac. No idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, <repeated a million times> (3,1,4).

I was asked some questions on the "Cryptic Crossword Society" page. I will answer those questions here.

Q1. How is it the longest clue?

Ans. The clue has two million words in it. Therefore, it is the world's longest clue. It breaks all previous records for the world's longest crossword clue.

Q2. You can count 'a million times' literally and what is the purpose of repetition?

Ans. The question is ambiguous. In case people have any questions about this clue, the clue reads as follows:

1 Ac. No idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, no idea, ... , no idea (3, 1, 4)

The phrase "no idea" is repeated a million times. The purpose of the choice of words in a clue can be anything. I can think of at least two different reasons for repetition. Can you?

Q3. Is there a limit to the number of times the phrase "no idea" can be repeated?

Ans. No. In the way I have formulated the clue, there is no limit. That is why I said that the clue can be made as long as you want. Its cardinality in the following form is aleph-naught:

1 Ac. No idea, no idea, ..., <infinite times> (3,1,4)

Q4. Is this the longest crossword clue possible?

Ans. Yes. A crossword clue must consist of a sentence. A sentence must have the following grammar:

S => W S

S => W .

Therefore, a sentence cannot have cardinality greater than aleph-naught. This clue has cardinality aleph-naught. Therefore, this is the longest crossword clue possible.

By the way, this constitutes a mathematical proof that this is the world's longest crossword clue.

Update (7:35 pm): Another question just came in.
Q5. Just 'no idea' means "Not a clue". What is the purpose of repetition?

Ans. This clue needs to be "read properly". I will supply here the reading of the clue. Note that like poetry, it is assumed that a cryptic crossword clue must be "interpreted" or "read properly". I will supply the reading below.

The clue is in two parts.

The first part is the phrase "No idea". This clues the final answer "Not a clue". The second part is the rest of the clue "no idea, no idea, ..., no idea". This part is -not- a clue. It is just a long sentence. At least, this is the case in our first reading (call this Reading R1) of this clue. This yields the answer "Not a clue". Thus, the phrase "Not a clue" is clued in two different ways. This satisfies the requirements for a cryptic crossword clue.

There is another neat thing about the clue. The pragmatics of the English language are such that "Not a clue" is a more emphatic phrase than the phrase "No idea". So, as a whole, the repetitions make it sound like somebody is emphasizing the phrase "No idea". This leads us also to the answer "Not a clue".

Q6. What if I don't agree with your interpretation?

Ans. Just like poets are given poetic license, so are setters of cryptic crossword puzzles given license. Even if you don't agree with an interpretation, you must try and see how that reading may be reasonable.

Q7. You said you also set the world's largest crossword puzzle. Can you link to the world's largest crossword puzzle?

Ans. Yes. Since this clue itself is infinitely long, there is no point in going in the other dimension. A two dimension crossword puzzle can never be of cardinality greater than aleph-naught. Therefore, as a mathematician, I stop here. This is the world's largest crossword puzzle as well.

There is a certain beauty in keeping things compact. So, in the interest of compactness, I present to you below the world's largest crossword puzzle in compact notation.

CROSSWORD PUZZLE

1 Ac. No idea, no idea, no idea, <repeated a million times> (3, 1, 4)

[ | | | | | | | ]

SOLUTION:

[ N | O | T | A | C | L | U | E ]

Q8. Give me a proof that the above crossword puzzle (the puzzle in Q7) is of the same cardinality as a crossword puzzle infinite in two dimensions.

Ans. This question is left as an exercise for the reader.
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Anand Manikutty got his undergraduate degree in Computer Science from the Indian Institute of Technology, something for which he still gets ribbed. He has pursued graduate work at the University of Wisconsin, the Harvard Business School and Stanford University. He is a technology entrepreneur and inventor holding over 15 patents in computer science and technology. He has over 15 research papers in computer science and engineering. He has also contributed to a textbook on strategic management. He splits time between Monterey and the crazy, exciting San Francisco Bay Area. He is working on this column in collaboration with Prof. Krishnan Shankar. Krishnan Shankar (Ravi to friends) is a Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oklahoma. His professional trajectory started in Mumbai at Ruparel through Reed College in Portland, Oregon and the University of Maryland, College Park where he obtained his Ph.D under Karsten Grove in differential geometry. His latest creation is by far his best and most demanding: his daughter, Sophie Mallika, who renews his sense of the miraculous on a daily basis. Prof. Sankaran Manikutty was a Professor (with tenure) at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad. His profession trajectory started in the Indian Railways where he worked for more than two decades. He obtained his Ph.D. in Strategy (an area that used to also be called Business Policy) at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad. He joined as faculty at the Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad and rose to the position of Professor. He is now retired from service. ~

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